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iNTERLuNe samplepacks

iNTERLuNe samplepacks

Postby Sonicade » Fri May 07, 2010 2:01 pm

Thank you iNTERLuNe for putting these together.

It somewhat skews the idea of a samplepack to release it ahead of the compo round. In the future let's keep the samples private until the round starts. Great job with the packs though! Does everyone feel they are ready to start the round?

FLAC: http://dl.free.fr/viMIltcax
XRNI: http://dl.free.fr/vX2kz5zRw
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Postby organic io » Fri May 07, 2010 2:10 pm

Yeah let's get it going! vsti allowed too??? :D
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Postby fbjon » Fri May 07, 2010 2:14 pm

I shall continue here..

As I said in the one-liners, the only problem is the loops are a bit short for the strings, and a few of the brass samples. They need to be longer in order to avoid the "bouncing" repetition, and gain more lushness. In order to keep the size down, a few samples can be sacrificed for that, so for example the C4 sample plays in the interval C4-D#4. Generally the longer the better, especially for strings, but of course the size has to be kept down.

At the same time, having a full multi-set of e.g. pizzicato sounds far better than just a few samples, no matter if the samples are short or not, so it's a matter of balance...

Anyway, as a pack it's very useful, though it's "pre-released", so to say. I'm not sure what suggestions came up earlier, but I'm thinking, if there's an orchestral themed compo, then either the free East West VSTi or this corresponding samplepack would be acceptable.

I happen to own the full version though, but presumably that would not be acceptable :o)
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Postby chunter » Fri May 07, 2010 4:05 pm

organic io wrote:Yeah let's get it going! vsti allowed too??? :D

I'd personally prefer to see any combination of the VST and samples taken from it, the only reason I want the option to use a pack of samples is because my gear can't load the VST (in other words, my request is about participation, not limitation.)
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Postby Sonicade » Fri May 07, 2010 6:47 pm

Round started! Any orchestral samples or vst along with iNTERLuNe's pack are accepted. Happy Tracking peoples!
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Postby gilli » Fri May 07, 2010 6:53 pm

Woo, this is going very fast.

iNTERLuNe, Regarding the 1-linsers: Thanks! I suggested samples for non-Renoisers, I use Renoise, too. (nt)



Is it possible to allow recorded instruments, too? I could use that actually.
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Creating surround effects

Postby gilli » Mon May 10, 2010 1:19 pm

On the 1-liners interlune was asking if it's possible to add surround effects using VSTs in Renoise.

The answer is: You can add surround effect and you don't need to use any VSTs.

A detailed answer would have its proper place in an own thread but let me give you the most important info for the orchestral round right here:

1) The magic behind it
The simple Dolby Pro Logic surround effect is only taking advantage of the usual stereo technology, originally not from Dolby but from David Hafler . But Pro Logic has some slight intelligence added to it.

In digital world you invert the sound from one band (multiply by -1) and add it to the other band. The result is the difference between left and right. In other words: Any center (mono) sound is removed then. This result will be played back on both rear speakers.

In analogous world you connect both of your rear speaker's connectors to the phase (+) of the left and the phase of the right band (you don't connect any of the negatives to it). What will happen is that any identical amplitude will be killed by its opponent phase. Only the different signals remain.

2) What's the difference of the left and right band?
If you pan a track totally to the left, then it's not equally present on both bands (left and right) anymore. So there's a difference between the left and the right channel.
On a Pro Logic receiver this sound would appear on the left speaker and on both of the rear speakers.

The same happens if you pan a track totally to the right. It's not equally present on both bands, again there' a difference between left and right.
On a Pro Logic receiver this sound would appear on the right speaker and on both of the rear speakers.

3) How to create surround sound
If you're creating music and you're having stereo samples, then you're better off taking advantage of the given stereo sound scape and of the stereo sound created by the many DSPs (reverb, delay, phaser, chorus). You will automatically have sound on your rear speakers without needing to do anything for it.

If you like to use the surround sound scape in a more conscious way (like having a mono instrument playing questions and a wide string ensemble playing the answers), then there are some simple ways.

* Expand the width with the TrackVolPan DSP. It basically adds the inverted sound of one band to the other.
* Expand the width with the Stereo Expander. Here you can chose which band shall be inverted. Additionally you can mix both bands together to have the mono sound for the center speaker.
* Create the good old FT2-stereo. Play the same sample on two tracks. Pan one totally to the left, the other one totally to the right. On the second one track insert a slight sample offset (e.g. 0901).
* Create the same FT2-stereo without sample offset. Use only one track for your sample, add a Delay DSP to it, mute its source, set all feedback to 0, set the left delay to minimum and the right one to 26ms.

4) Be careful.
Keep bass sounds mono. Just do it and save yourself a lot of headache. It's hard to control bass when it's coming from different sources (speakers) and most consumer systems only have one speaker for the bass, the subwoofer.

Don't spoil your sound. Don't ever widen your sound to the max (don't set the slider of stereo expanders to the max).

Else what?

Else exactly these sounds will be missing on any mono output. And there's a lot of mono output out there. First place where it happens is, when you encode your song to MP3. Joint Stereo tries to save redundancy and encodes similar sounds from left and right as mono. And if you don't let it do so because your source has too much of a difference, then you'll need insane bitrates to get around the MPEG artifacts.

Else the mix/mastering will sound horrible on any other system. You mixed your sound for 5 speakers at least (l, c, r, rL, rR) leaving out the LFR (woofer). Even on a different 5.1 system it will sound totally different because of the room size and many settings.
Now imagine how different it'll sound on a basic stereo system. Crosscheck. Listen in stereo, in 5.1 and - very important - on headphones.




That's the basics I can think of to mention here.

Best luck.
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Postby Airmann » Mon May 10, 2010 7:29 pm

really Interesting Gilli,

where do you have this knowledge from ?
seems that you already have some experience in multichannel mixing (jealous - don't have such a set up ;-) )

Some questions:

- why do you call the audio channels "bands" ? "Bands" is IMO more a term for describing frequency ranges. Confused me somehow.

- You wrote that basically a good stereo mix is sufficient for good Dolby Pro Logic Surround. On the other hand you suggest the widening stuff. AFAIK not only a few mixing enigneers regard stereo enhancers as critical, because often they are used as cheap replacement for well "panned" stereo mixes, which makes the sound "thin". So actually I don't understand in depth how a surround mix could profit from stereo widening DSPs. maybe one could omit the widening completely (?)

- The problem when using stereo expander surround is that you easily move too much into antiphase and loose some mono compatibility as you've described. I can recommend to use a phase correlation metering tool to controll this. E.g. Voxengo SPAN - the new version.

But I'm pretty sure that nowadays MP3 joint stereo doesn't need mono-compatible stereo mixes to work properly. Joint Stereo works lossless for higher bitrates (>=128 KBit).

Background: Joint Stereo is just a combination of intensity stereo and MS stereo encoding. Intensity Stereo works lossy and in that case phase cancellation / problems (?) can occure. But MS Stereo is just an encoding of the original stereo image and works lossless. ASFAIK this is the preferred method of most of nowadays encoders. See http://www.audiohq.de/index.php?showtopic=16. Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Stereo

Otherwise a really interesting topic and I FULLY agree about Mono Bass (especially the deeper freqs < 200 Hz).

Have you ever tried to do a 5.1 mix ? I don't have the setup, but it must be awesome ! Some day I will do it :-)
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