Discuss & Share your Audio Production, Mastering, Post Production Techniques here.

Linux music discussion (originally "Ableton & Wine&

Linux music discussion (originally "Ableton & Wine&

Postby organic io » Wed May 26, 2010 7:44 am

To continue the discussion from the 1 liners:

»05/23 11:45PM Sonicade: Reverse vocal effect tutorial! (in ableton but its easy to follow) http://unitedmusicro.com/the-reverse-vo ... n-ableton/

»05/24 08:25PM organic_io: 'cade, I've been considering using ableton for my live drums project, but not sure how well it would run in Linux [X]

»05/25 04:19AM Sonicade: @organic, that would be interesting. I've played around with it a bit but so far I don't understand it. Heres an article I found on what your describing: http://dasacc22.wordpress.com/2008/08/2 ... -and-wine/

»05/25 05:40PM chunter: I was about to say I heard somebody got Ableton to run under Wine but that was FL.

»05/25 06:08PM Airmann: Hey O.IO: Wine Ableton sounds very adventurous, what about real Windows (Dual boot ?)

»05/25 06:58PM Shadowbane: ableton has a gold rating on the appdb. The user says that it doesn't export audio though..


Airmann, to answer your question. I already have a dual boot set up, but I am migrating to Linux completely. With a realtime linux kernel, I was able to get much lower audio latency, plus JACK is an awesome thing.

I'm sure if Ableton doesn't work perfectly, I could get a native Linux app to do looping and stuff that I need. I've already taken a look at a few. But I've got tons of hardware stuff to iron out on my drums project before I get too deep into software :)
Last edited by organic io on Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
organic io
Compo Admin
Compo Admin
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:55 am

Postby Airmann » Sun May 30, 2010 6:08 am

Hey Scott,

generally I like the idea of using Linux as production platform. I love Ubuntu Desktop (indeed it's the platform for my PC at work).
I know there are DAW's like Ardour and MUSE and so on, but a few years ago I only had problems with all those stuff. It just wasn't stable enough, also wasn't Wine.

But I guess Renoise is much more stable on Linux (?) and in the meanwhile maybe the overall audio stability is better ?

What's your experience ? Is it still fumbling and fixing or can you say: yes, it's stable ?

Gr33tz ;-)
Airmann
Insomniac
Insomniac
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Germany

Postby organic io » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:38 pm

I haven't seen any crashes on Renoise native or through Wine, but I haven't really used Renoise much for the past year that I've been on Linux.

Most of everything that I have used though seems really stable. JACK is a fantastic piece of software -- Being able to route anything to anything else easily with very little overhead.

I have had a couple of crashes with fst (wrapper for windows vst's), but nothing too severe.

Right now I still need to get more RAM to really do everything I need to do efficiently.

But yes, I like it... I would say give it a shot these days and see what you think. I am running Ubuntu Studio 9.10 and love it. There is always the Linux learning curve of spending hours trying to figure out how the hell to do certain things, but once you do the level of power it offers is exceptional :D
User avatar
organic io
Compo Admin
Compo Admin
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:55 am

Re: Ableton & Wine

Postby fbjon » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:07 am

organic io wrote:With a realtime linux kernel, I was able to get much lower audio latency, plus JACK is an awesome thing.

Have you gotten the realtime kernel work with binary blob GPU drivers for nvidia etc.? Having both fast 3D graphics and realtime audio would be fantastic..
_
Image Chotoro gallery
User avatar
fbjon
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:07 pm

Re: Ableton & Wine

Postby organic io » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:28 am

fbjon wrote:
organic io wrote:With a realtime linux kernel, I was able to get much lower audio latency, plus JACK is an awesome thing.

Have you gotten the realtime kernel work with binary blob GPU drivers for nvidia etc.? Having both fast 3D graphics and realtime audio would be fantastic..


Unfortunately no. It has been a few months since I installed the rt kernel, but I remember struggling with the nvidia drivers a bit and giving up early on figuring it wouldn't be worth the time since I'm not much of a gamer anymore. So I have the nv drivers installed right now.

I even tried the "nouveau" drivers but it seems like I had trouble with that too.

Alas. I am thinking at this point in time a dual boot would be optimal for gaming.

But I will let you know if I ever get it working. You do the same if you ever try and get it to work!
User avatar
organic io
Compo Admin
Compo Admin
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:55 am

Postby Airmann » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:48 pm

Regarding realtime audio Linux /Mac OS vs. Windows:

my experience is that latencies also heavily depend on

- overall System and CPU performance
- System configuration (virus killer etc.)
- DAW (e.g. supports multiple CPU's y/n ?)
- soundcard and drivers

Though I had pretty low latency values on Mac OS,
I have comparable values on my Windows System now.

E.g. Reaper is fantastic for minimal latency values.
I can go down to 5-10 ms latency without clicks and drops.
Of course also Renoise is fantastic. My soundcard uses
a 400 Mbit Firewire connection.

What more do I need ?
Airmann
Insomniac
Insomniac
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Germany

Postby shadowbane » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:55 pm

I need to get a real soundcard so I can get below the ~50ms that crappy onboard stuff gets to..
shadowbane
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:05 pm

Postby organic io » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:32 pm

Airmann wrote:E.g. Reaper is fantastic for minimal latency values.
I can go down to 5-10 ms latency without clicks and drops.
Of course also Renoise is fantastic. My soundcard uses
a 400 Mbit Firewire connection.

What more do I need ?


I can go down to .3 ms in JACK without clicks and drops. :P

shadowbane wrote:I need to get a real soundcard so I can get below the ~50ms that crappy onboard stuff gets to..


I thought you used Linux? JACK shouldn't have any latency issues even with crap soundcards. Hence projects like El-cheapo

http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/toots/el-cheapo/

This howto explains how a user can combine 2 or more consumer grade soundcards of the same model to be used as one single virtual multichannel soundcard for multichannel recording in Linux.


which I am seriously considering doing. Interested to see if you could find some crappy USB soundcards that you can access the crystals on.

---
And Chotoro, I think I am going to download a no-fuss Linux Live CD for gaming, for example:
http://live.linux-gamers.net/
Last edited by organic io on Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
organic io
Compo Admin
Compo Admin
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:55 am

Postby shadowbane » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:53 am

Ok, looks like I just needed to do some configuring... I just got it down to 5.33 msec by raising the sampling rate. Some xruns, but I was running in normal priority without closing a ton of programs that hog the cpu...
shadowbane
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:05 pm

Postby organic io » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:57 am

shadowbane wrote:Ok, looks like I just needed to do some configuring... I just got it down to 5.33 msec by raising the sampling rate. Some xruns, but I was running in normal priority without closing a ton of programs that hog the cpu...


Awesome!

Isn't it kind of seemingly counterintuitive how raising the samplerate actually reduces the latency? When I first tried JACK I thought "Oh, I will make the samplerate 11020 if I need to make this faster" and then I noticed that it actually made the latency increase!!! Then I was like, holy crap, 96000 is the fastest! Bring it on

:D
User avatar
organic io
Compo Admin
Compo Admin
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:55 am

Postby Airmann » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:23 pm

Organic IO wrote:I can go down to .3 ms in JACK without clicks and drops. :P


:-) ha ha yes, let's do some muscle playing ;-).

No really, that's a pretty good value, but is this the bi-directional or uni-directional value ? I have 5-10 ms if I play my guitar through a considerable effect chain in realtime. 5-10 ms is the summed value of input buffer, dsp processing delay and output buffer.

Uni-directional I can also go down to 3 ms (48 Samplepoints) with 48000 KHz. I used the elephant limiter with 3ms and 8x internal oversampling (8 x 48000!). Moreover I've opened my Avira Antivirus Suite, Firefox, Thunderbird and an arbitrary downloader, and the CPU load is still < 10%.

So I'm not sure if Jack is really better than ASIO, and please don't forget which DSP plugins are used. For Windows there are still more professional and greedy ones than for Linux.

But I guess Jack is really intersting if your Soundcard is Onboard. That's very interesting.

Peace ... Mat
Airmann
Insomniac
Insomniac
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Germany

Postby shadowbane » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:08 pm

The latency I was looking at is what jack reports. So that would be with no fx.. I don't actually know what the latencies of most of the fx i would be using are.
shadowbane
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:05 pm

Postby organic io » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:11 pm

shadowbane wrote:The latency I was looking at is what jack reports. So that would be with no fx.. I don't actually know what the latencies of most of the fx i would be using are.


Me too
User avatar
organic io
Compo Admin
Compo Admin
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:55 am

Postby Airmann » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:15 pm

Guess it's the same with the reaper display (?). What I do when playing guitar through fx is trying to decrease buffer size as far as possible. At some point clicks occure and then I increase a little bit more to be on the safe side.
I usually don't achieve this with 3 ms, I need 5-15 ms or so. Depends on the fx chain.

Nonetheless I guess maybe I'll have a closer look at the Jack stuff. Maybe good for the laptop and mobile recording. Mhhhhh.
Airmann
Insomniac
Insomniac
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Germany

Postby organic io » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:28 pm

Aha, so far I have not put a lot of effects on this... Since I have just been using it to trigger Addictive Drums so far (and it has its own effects chains which are pretty robust). I wonder if it would kill it to run more effects on it. I will end up testing that in a few more weeks once I get my organ pedalboard wired up and use it to play back synths

I wonder if more RAM would help with glitching too. I only have 1GB right now but I am planning on saving up for another 2GB

I'm going to rename this thread to the Linux music discussion
User avatar
organic io
Compo Admin
Compo Admin
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:55 am
Next

Return to Production / Mastering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest