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Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby a-lin » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:02 am

Not that I want to add more mess to this discussion but I'm thinking, if too many people are reluctanct to use another tracker what about picking one or 2 chiptune VSTs and... anything goes. See here for some resource

http://woolyss.com/chipmusic-plugins.php?s=

For instance ymVST is really good and I don't think it's been ever used for the SDCompo.

Should we run a poll?

My personal vote is blank (i.e. indifferent).
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby Directionless » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:59 am

Sounds good to me. That solves multiple issues - nobody will have to install new trackers in order to play back the entries that do not render to disk. And those that want to heavily effect their chip tune can do so, while those that want to keep it pure can use no effect at all. Or if this is missing the feel, certain effects can be restricted. But overall a more feasible choice.

Additionally, if it is a problem to use a windows only vst, I see there are some that support Mac, like VOPM or Magical 8bit Plug.

And I guess, we should restrict it to the vst for beat creation, OSC style.
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby Directionless » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:18 am

Also, for more limitation, you could restrict it to 4 or 8 tracks and no sends.
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby a-lin » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:22 pm

Using Wine, OS X should actually be able to run Renoise's Windows + ymVST. Works under Linux at least.

I'm personally particularly fond of the kind of fat sound that YM2149 can produce (what ymVST emulates), listen to that for instance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=507OuJp_KRk

BTW, if we go with ymVST, I volunteer to create a samplepack using Ann's bank (ann.sounds.free.fr) + whatever patches I can create. Well, just saying, ultimately I'm happy with any choice. :)
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby a-lin » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:31 pm

If we do go with the chip-plugin road (rather than chiptracker), maybe we don't need any limitation, even simpler. And yes, drum kit out of the emulated chipsound, nothing more :)
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby Directionless » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:50 pm

That sample song is great! I like the sounds. I agree with your ideas of total simplicity. I hope we can move forward. I'd like to start composing (school starts for fall term in a week) but not until I know which tracker i'll be using.
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby organic io » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:49 pm

This is a fine idea with me. Would make it less prohibitive. I looked through that list but not thoroughly. Does anybody know if there is a vst that emulates several old soundchips such as SID and NES both? That would be ideal, but alternately I guess we could choose two or 3 synths.

I think limiting to 4 or 5 channels is a good idea. How about 4 instrument channels, and one 1 bit channel which can be used for vocals only? !!??! :-D

Also the instrument channels have to be bitcrushed to 4 bits or something like that !?!!??! :-D

VOTE PLEASE!!!
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby organic io » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:58 pm

If there is not a good multi chip vst, I vote for:

Triforce (NES)
ymvst
SIDizer (looks the most advanced for c64)

And only a couple fx allowed, such as reverb and distortion !?!?!! :-D
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby a-lin » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:48 am

Wow, 4x4-bit channel + 1x1-bit recorded performance channel, now that's some limitation!!!

The plugin set looks good to me.

+1 (for the challenge)

Regarding the effects, I don't know if we need limitations. At least I'd be for keeping most standard effects like gates, compressors, etc.
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby a-lin » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:03 am

SIDizer is not free, and the demo version is perhaps too limited (no LFO, I don't like this). There are plently of free SID emulators, someone'd need to go through that list. Maybe I'll do that if I have time.
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby Directionless » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:05 am

Does 4-bit mean you wouldn't actually use the live VST but convert over to sample so that you can set to 4-bits? Or could you do this anyway?

Also, I'm with A-lin, I like compressor. If you want to limit an effect, you could restrict things like phaser.

All that and the above posts being said, we will be facing another limitation known as time. :P I'm for whatever is easiest to implement the start of the round. :)
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby organic io » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:41 pm

a-lin wrote:SIDizer is not free, and the demo version is perhaps too limited (no LFO, I don't like this). There are plently of free SID emulators, someone'd need to go through that list. Maybe I'll do that if I have time.


OK, I'll pick a free SID vsti and we'll get this thing going :-D

RE: Directionless' question - No need to render to sample, just put a 4 bit crusher on each channel. Muahahahaaaaaaaaaaa *evil laugh*
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby a-lin » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:47 pm

Obviously the bit crushers will have to be applied as *last* effect, muahahahaaaaaaaaaaa ;-)

I had a look at SIDizer and few other alternatives. SIDizer looks more like a nuclear reactor than a SID emulator, the patches are too sophisticated, it's gonna kill the retro chiptune feel we're after (that I'm after anyway).

Dream 64 Pro is great (although it doesn't fit my laptop screen), there are plently others I didn't try.

Also do you guys want me to create a ymVST samplepack? If you can run ymVST it would obviously be better (and I'm busy), but since I suggested ymVST in the first place and I'm attached to it, I'll do it if some want me to.
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby organic io » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:02 pm

a-lin wrote:Obviously the bit crushers will have to be applied as *last* effect, muahahahaaaaaaaaaaa ;-)


Let's just put a 4 bit crusher on the master, and then require that 1 bit crusher be the last effect on the optional 5th channel. :)

a-lin wrote:I had a look at SIDizer and few other alternatives. SIDizer looks more like a nuclear reactor than a SID emulator, the patches are too sophisticated, it's gonna kill the retro chiptune feel we're after (that I'm after anyway).

Dream 64 Pro is great (although it doesn't fit my laptop screen), there are plently others I didn't try.


Dream64 looks a little too feature rich, how about something like Pure64?

Somebody else weigh in, otherwise we'll be discussing this forever....

a-lin wrote:Also do you guys want me to create a ymVST samplepack? If you can run ymVST it would obviously be better (and I'm busy), but since I suggested ymVST in the first place and I'm attached to it, I'll do it if some want me to.


I don't think that will be necessary, IF there is anybody who can't or won't run this stuff, we can make a samplepack if we need to. Well.. Hell I don't know, I am wonderfully indecisive today aren't I?
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Re: Upcoming Round 86 discussion

Postby a-lin » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:42 am

There are few things I dont like about Pure64, like the vibrato (only square), so I tried all the SID VST I could find. But I couldn't find the kind of gem I was looking for. There are either missing basic stuff (for instance MicroSynth is really great and simple but doesn't have glide), or there are bloated or have other issues.

Anyway, I'm wondering if including a SID emulator is really necessary, ymVST does some SID emulation, not complete though, just what the Atari ST was able to do.

Those 2 options seem to make sense to me:

1) include a fully fleshed SID emulator for the purist

2) simplify using just ymVST + Triforce

Also, please note that the ymVST version packed as zip file on the woolyss website contains 2 banks (which are not included on the ymVST webpage).

4-bit per channel seems perfect to me, I'm concerned that 4-bit for the whole mix is gonna be too low.

Guys?
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