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German Techno / Trance w my vocals

German Techno / Trance w my vocals

Postby Directionless » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:30 pm

fellow Psycler SAS has produced another fine dancey trancey tune, only this time mixed with my vocals:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/23/1289779/Directionless-SAS-JohnTheRevelator.mp3

There should be more to come. 8)
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Re: German Techno / Trance w my vocals

Postby crosfire » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:37 am

Directionless wrote:fellow Psycler SAS has produced another fine dancey trancey tune, only this time mixed with my vocals:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/23/1289779/Directionless-SAS-JohnTheRevelator.mp3

There should be more to come. 8)


Are you from Texas?
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Re: German Techno / Trance w my vocals

Postby Directionless » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:33 am

crosfire wrote:
Directionless wrote:fellow Psycler SAS has produced another fine dancey trancey tune, only this time mixed with my vocals:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/23/1289779/Directionless-SAS-JohnTheRevelator.mp3

There should be more to come. 8)


Are you from Texas?


ouch! :P

haha

history of my existence:

virginia 0 - 9 months
southern cali - 9 months to 20 years
nebraska - 22 to 24 years
southern cali - 22 to 24 years
utah - 24 to 32 years (with some summers in alaska)

yeah, i know utah has a certain drawl that i can't help but absorb after so long. it won't be the last place i live. but it's definitely left it's mark.
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Postby organic io » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:00 am

this is pretty cool, reminds me quite a bit of underworld.

looks like socal should have had the most influence on your accent, although i do notice some kind of drawl that i am not familiar with, having lived on the east coast most of my life (North Carolina for the past 19 years). most residents here have their own distinct flavour of redneckness, which i have done my best to not absorb.

as for the song itself, this is some good flow... nice production & composition. but, i would be being dishonest if i didn't mention that there are lots of places in the vocals where it is obvious that you are not hitting the right pitch. i don't claim to be a excellent singer myself either

( http://io4spam.googlepages.com/io_-_Frequencies.mp3 ) for a taste of my vocal follies (no pitch correction & used one of the first few takes)

however i still thought it was worth mentioning ... i have 2 suggestions:

1) practice a little more to get a better vocal take

or

2) use pitch correcting software (i recommend Melodyne) ... http://www.celemony.com/cms/

or ... 1 & 2 combined, which will ultimately yield the best results.


and ...

as far as the "ethics" of using pitch correction software. i don't think there is anything wrong with it. you can hear artifacts of pitch correction in a broad range of music, especially in cheesey kind of pop where the vocalist is not only as talented, but also not as experienced as maybe they should be to be a professional singer.

best example i can think of i've heard lately is Jojo - too little too late.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FY8hl6b54A

great song, no doubt, but... ok.... listen to some of the mariah carey notes she hits near the end, around 3:40. there is NO way that girl is actually hitting that shit so effortlessly. that's not the singer, that's producer music right there.

it's actually sad, kind of.... that people can't let their natural talent show more. the general public has been so spoiled into expecting a certain level of performance out of their vocalists, that top 40 music has to be so falsified to this level of plasticity ... (OK, i appologize for the rant here)

but ... on the other hand, it is also sad that people with obviously not enough vocal talent or training are able to make top 40 hits. it's like, instead of doing in the right way -- years of practice & dedication, they are just taking the easy way out and letting the producer smooth it over.

i'd also like to use another example which is the difference between how musical acts sound live, and their studio recordings. i don't know if you have heard of "Within Temptation" ... they are a gothic rock kind of group from the Netherlands... the lead singer has a very operatic type of voice. when i first started listening to them, i noticed several minor little mistakes in the vocal track, where maybe she wasn't hitting a pitch quite fast enough ... or whatever. so i used think, the within temptation chick probably isn't a very good singer.... well i ended up becoming a big fan of this group, and after watching some live performance DVD's of theirs, i completely completely retract any statements about her being a not good singer. she sounds ALMOST as good live, as she does on the album. which is to say significantly better than many artists sound live. this means 2 things :

1) she's got the skills
and
2) the album isn't producer music, it's actually her singing, probably with very little, if none, pitch correction/production magic going on

contrast this with a similar-genred band, which i'm just as big of a fan of... Evanescence...
studio albums -- her shit sounds flawless...
but then if you ever go listen to a live performance of theirs ...
her voice will just make you go :?
well, that sucks... but i don't think that it makes them not worthy of being professionals, because their songwriting and the ultimate outcome of the studio albums more than makes up for any lacking in vocal talent

----

ok so as far as this relates to you and me ???

let's make an analogy with how sports players are always taking steroids & drugs in order to get a physical edge in the game...

pitch correction is that drug. everybody else is doing it... if we didn't, we'd be behind the game.


wow...

i could go on, but i've got to go to work.

i appologize again for the rant, and really hope i didn't offend!!!
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Postby Directionless » Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:42 pm

dj io wrote:this is pretty cool, reminds me quite a bit of underworld.

looks like socal should have had the most influence on your accent, although i do notice some kind of drawl that i am not familiar with, having lived on the east coast most of my life (North Carolina for the past 19 years). most residents here have their own distinct flavour of redneckness, which i have done my best to not absorb.

wow...

i could go on, but i've got to go to work.

i appologize again for the rant, and really hope i didn't offend!!!


HAhah, no sweat. i've been singing for over 20 years so i can handle it.

2 observations:

1) utah is where i've been for the past 8 years, so that's where my recent phonetics are.

2) you'd perhaps have to understand more about my progression as both a singer and a human being to consider where my standing on vocal quality is. but just to cover the basics - i've spent years in choir and have no problem with hitting pitch as desired. that being said, i'm on my own course and have what i guess would be considered an aquired style being that when i am "off" i'm actually in transition to the next "on" or blurring the lines as it were.

i don't see art as performance exhibition (american idol) or a competition for perceived perfection. some of my favorite vocalists would include Neil Young and Tom Waits, neither of whom would ever win an american idol ideology based tournament, but still are artists and take the cake in my eyes over your average carbon copy singer.

p.s. eff pitch correction. :)
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Postby organic io » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:47 pm

awesome. i want to hear more. don't cover the basics, go into detail :D
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Postby Directionless » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:16 pm

dj io wrote:awesome. i want to hear more. don't cover the basics, go into detail :D


I started singing in an 'official' capacity at the age of 10 - for 5 years doing stage productions in Orange County - schools & fairs. Then choir all through junior high and high school. Then some additional church-related projects including singing to some state legislators, recording a chorale song in a pro studio that got airplay in nebraska, and also a stage production 3 piece barbershop event. All that was a good foundation, but i find little appeal in the conventional singing after having spent so much of my life 'perfecting' it. Now I hear through or beyond the theory and notes that would have sounded totally off to me in my formative years - an integral part of my style that more or less developed on it's own without trying to sound like anything existing.

I started home recordings in 1997, a couple years after picking up the guitar to have something to sing to. So I have a lot of demo recordings with better examples of perfect pitch. but it's like as if I had been a recording artist all this time, and moved on. there's always an opportunity to revert back (as like i said, I still possess the ability to sing more conventionally). Another Psycle user plans to make some Enigma-style tracks with my vocals so i'll be sure to post when there's something on that.

another point about this particular track, I recorded it with more down tempo swagger as my instrumentation was acoustic guitar and synth. SAS used tempo adjustment to fit it to his techno. So that may be an additional oddity in this recording. in our next track (Stripped - another depeche mode cover) the vocals will be recorded at the right tempo and there will likely be a different vocal style since i'll be singing to the rough demo he has already created, rather than a completely different instrumentation.

not sure what else you wanted me to go on about, but the main point as I see it is - artists that use pitch correction as well as american idol-types are soulless bastards. hehe. I love Neil Young for example, because I hear his soul shine through his vocals. This means everything to me, the listener. Whereas someone that is chiefly concerned with applying "correct" music theory may be found lacking in much else.

As i've been told by many artists - art is about subversion. It is the greatest tool humanity has against all that ails us. With that in mind, the corporate-ish music can be quite traitorous. ;)
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Postby FingerSoup » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:11 am

Directionless wrote:
Iartists that use pitch correction as well as american idol-types are soulless bastards. hehe.


Just thought I'd add my own 2 cents on the rants.....

While I agree with the above sentiment to a point, I do not think that it's these people are soulless bastards. I think the people that exploit the singers are soulless bastards, and sometimes they take an HONEST, NAIEVE, OR GULLIBLE PERSON and turn them into a SLAVE for the soulless bastards. Don't get me wrong though, I'm sure many of these people are, or have turned into soulless bastards, and just expect other people to do all their hard work for them while all they do is look pretty... Sometimes it pays to be a puppet for the music business. And Puppets are what the music business WANTS. Puppets to do what they say, brainwash kids into listening to utter crap, then make a mint off of it. It's a broken model to find puppets for the music business. And when the puppet chosen by the audience doesn't conform to what the music business wants - hide them, cover them up (Reuben Who?)....

This is also where Pitch Shifting stops being a creative tool, and starts being evil. take a kid with mediocre talent, but gigantic boobs and a hot ass, then adjust their pitch to make them sound technically flawless - Thus creating a moneymaking, sex-selling puppet. Record several versions with minor production flaws to make it sound live, and have them lip-synch to it while they dance around on-stage.... Pay them lots of money to sell the image, without complaint or . BOOM. You wonder why they go crazy,Shave their head, get all drugged up because they realize they don't deserve to be where they are, and then make their dirty scumbag of an ex-boyfriend look like mother Teresa in comparison. Sound like a certain pop princess of the late 90's early 2000's? now she's white trash, with a worse reputation than OJ.`

Anyways.... I've been watching too much Penn & Teller's Bullshit. I'm going to bed now...
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Postby Directionless » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:01 am

FingerSoup wrote:
Directionless wrote:
Iartists that use pitch correction as well as american idol-types are soulless bastards. hehe.


Just thought I'd add my own 2 cents on the rants.....

Anyways.... I've been watching too much Penn & Teller's Bullshit. I'm going to bed now...


I find nothing to argue here. :)

The only spin I could put on it would be this:

regardless of whether the person has any talent or is naive or not, it is easy for an artist that actually works hard at developing music skills to resent someone that is a corporate production.

of course, resentment also steals your soul, so I have to be careful to make it only a matter of debate, rather than a personal issue. ;)
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Postby RobWilliamsJnr » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:25 pm

sometimes pitch correction MAKES the song!

"do you beeeelieve in life after love?" awesome hook
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Postby Directionless » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:44 pm

RobWilliamsJnr wrote:sometimes pitch correction MAKES the song!

"do you beeeelieve in life after love?" awesome hook


if the pitch correction tool is used for creative purpose I can accept that. A song that comes to mind which I enjoy more than the afformentioned is - Eiffel 64, Blue
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Postby Directionless » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:41 pm

RobWilliamsJnr wrote:sometimes pitch correction MAKES the song!

"do you beeeelieve in life after love?" awesome hook


"move your booody, every every boooody"
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Postby organic io » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:52 pm

i didn't like "blue" as much as "living in a bubble" by eiffel 65

hehee, you said eiffel 64
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Postby Directionless » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:55 pm

dj io wrote:i didn't like "blue" as much as "living in a bubble" by eiffel 65

hehee, you said eiffel 64


yeah, so i did. and i was hoping to be perfect today. damnit.
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Postby Sonicade » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:26 pm

Haha "I was hoping to be perfect today", thats awesome.
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