Comments, Suggestions and/or Feature Requests for the Soundevotion Competition.

Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby a-lin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:14 pm

When looking back at previous entires many MP3 links are broken.

One can play the entries with the right tracker but it's not as convenient (especially if you're using say Linux and some entry requires Windows plugins). It would be so cool if one can just download some huge archive and enjoy it all.

What must be done is rendering all entries and compile all that in a torrent file, or upload that in some website with free storage, or both.

I personally like the torrent way, as long as a few guys agree to always keep an image on their machine it should be fine.

Now what we need is volunteers because it's a big task, but not that big. (I'm happy to participate for rendering songs under vanilla Renoise as I'm running Linux).

Then we need to agree on the file tree organization, and also how to fill it, some share online drive, like google drive could be used, although it would be rapidely full I'm afraid, but for temporarily working on a few rounds it would be enough.

For the directory tree I suggest the following:

SDCArchive/
├── Round-01
│   ├── Entries
│   │   ├── FLAC
│   │   ├── MP3
│   │   ├── OGG
│   │   └── Sources
│   └── SamplePack
└── Round-02
...

I added FLAC and OGG but I don't know if that's a good idea, it might take too much place then. I'd happily only use OGG but I know not all OS support that natively which might not be a good idea either, so MP3 seems again the best.

I'm gonna make a very appoximative memory requirement, we've got 72 rounds, there is about 10 songs per round and each one takes about 20MB (MP3 + tracker file), which sums up to 14GB, totally doable nowadays.

So who's up?

Suggestions welcome!

Thanks,
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby a-lin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:19 pm

Also, should the songs be normalized, or such, etc?

Is there any way to automized that, I'm sure it could be, at least, partially automized.
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby a-lin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:24 pm

Of course, one could also write some bot that browses the website and download all MP3s from all non dead links and put then in their place on the directory tree, that would certainly cut by half the rendering job. I've done something similar in the past, I might be able to write a script doing that... Doing it manually isn't such a humongous task either.
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby organic io » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:13 am

Hey A-lin... I like your enthusiasm! Yeah, we have actually talked about this before and it was a long term goal of mine. I was kind of waiting until a more landmark round number (80 or 100)... But since you mention it now so enthusiastically, I think we can get it together before then :)
I was planning on using the Internet Archive for this purpose, hopefully if we store all the songs there, they will stay for a long time... Perhaps even we will be able to show our grandchildren: "Yes, these are all the songs that I used to have something to do with"...
I know KVR OSC - https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/ - was also going to contact the archive about uploading their stuff, and I think what I remember them saying is that after they hit 50 rounds they would be able to start archiving. We've got em beat, so I think we should have no problem getting the access, it's just a matter of actually doing it.

Regarding having a bot download all the non-broken links, I don't like that idea, since some folks may have rendered in low bitrates (128k). I view this as more of a long term archive so I think the higher the quality we can manage, the better. I think 320kbps mp3 would be decently suitable. Adding Flac in addition to that would be awesome, IF we have the bandwidth. Ogg I don't care as much about, but if someone thinks it is important, I guess we can include it. If we have multiple people doing the rendering, it would be nice to agree on a set of standard codecs, settings, and naming conventions... That way everything is uniform.

Regular rounds should be pretty straightforward to render, but vst rounds will be more challenging because of issues like: making sure the correct VST version is used and that it plays back correctly. It is possible that we will even have errors where things play back not as the author originally intended... Which is why I think it would also be useful to include the source files also on the Internet Archive. But I'm not sure if they will let us do that.
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby organic io » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:16 am

So A-lin it sounds like you're volunteering to help with this. I think Chunter has also said in the past he could help. I think if we break it up between the 3 of us (and any others that are willing) it should be pretty manageable. Now to agree on settings, who does what, and a timeframe. Again I'm not in any rush as I'm pretty busy a lot of the time, but I should be able to fit it in.
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby organic io » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:31 am

Well, I just looked in the Internet Archive's section about audio.. http://archive.org/about/faqs.php#Audio It looks like you can upload FLAC and then it will generate other formats out of that, including ogg and mp3. So that would definitely be the way to go.

I think normalizing is fine, but any other destructive post processing should be avoided.

So, render to WAV, normalize to 0db in Audacity, and then encode Flac, name the file, and upload to Internet Archive?

Now the main thing to figure out is: What section should it go under on the archive? And will we be allowed to do this? And will multiple users be able to upload to the same account?

Since I don't really see much about these things in the FAQ, I will create an account on the IA forums in the next few days and see if we can get these questions answered, and then we can go ahead and get started :)
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby organic io » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:39 am

Depending on the number of people we have rendering, it will be split something like this:

3 = 24 rounds each
4 = 18 rounds each
5 = 14.4 rounds each

(assuming we start at current round 72)

More than 5 is splitting it between too many people I think, and more things are likely to go wrong with organization and standardization (formats, filenames).
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby chunter » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:53 pm

I'll do some. The ones I did for myself don't count. ;)
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby organic io » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:54 pm

chunter wrote:I'll do some. The ones I did for myself don't count. ;)


Awesome, thanks!
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby lossfizzle » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:55 pm

Happy to help as well. I don't have a RNS license yet but I can take of that. (or someone can just assign me earlier rounds that are not as Renoise-heavy or something.)
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby lossfizzle » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:02 pm

Also, on the audio file formats, I would actually suggest including either FLAC and v2 MP3 or FLAC *only*. Even v0 is not what I would consider a serious archival format, but if it's going to be just MP3, then I would suggest a minimum standard of v0. I know there are Ogg devotees around but they can also use a FLAC file to roll their own. :)
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby chunter » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:03 pm

If we use archive.org to store the audio, you upload FLAC and they encode the other formats for you automatically.
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby organic io » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:51 pm

lossfizzle wrote:Happy to help as well. I don't have a RNS license yet but I can take of that. (or someone can just assign me earlier rounds that are not as Renoise-heavy or something.)


Actually the first 15 or so rounds were Renoise only... So that idea goes out the window. :D
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby lossfizzle » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:19 am

Yeah, I should just learn to shut up while I'm ahead. Anyway, I'm still in to help and I'm pretty sure I can deal with either getting a Renoise license and/or finding a workable "pure-digital loophole" rendering solution to the same issue before this all gets started.
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Re: Build archive of tracker files and MP3

Postby shadowbane » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:51 pm

lossfizzle wrote:Yeah, I should just learn to shut up while I'm ahead. Anyway, I'm still in to help and I'm pretty sure I can deal with either getting a Renoise license and/or finding a workable "pure-digital loophole" rendering solution to the same issue before this all gets started.


Under Linux you can use jack to plug Renoise into your favorite audio recorder. If you use Renoise much I would recommend a license though, it is worth the money (this is coming from someone who doesn't own a Renoise license. :? )
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